P1LMS 2022 - 6h Estoril- Talk

Discussion in 'Race Information' started by Markus Broch, Dec 21, 2021.

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  1. Alex Sturm

    Alex Sturm New Member

    Heres my take on our Race:

    From our Teams perspective it couldn't been worse than yesterday. Qualifying was pretty decent with P6 and pretty much our maximum.
    The start went also pretty well and we managed to gain 2-3 Spots after some differences inbetween our Opponents. 30mins into the Race we got collected in the big Accident in Sector 3 wich did cost us almost every chance of a Top 5 Result for this Race.
    After over 3 Minutes of Repair and being back by 5 Laps to the Leader we headed back into the Race and tried to achieve atleast a Top 10 Result wich we kind of did by Luck. Over the next few hours we were struggeling really with traffic, sometimes to aggressive by us and sometimes to cautios so we lost another couple of Laps overall here too. In the End we managed to get back into the Top 10 with 14 Laps down.
    Quiet frankly not the Result we wanted but still a lot of Experienced gained about the Car.

    About the Traffic situation:
    Personally I've experienced most of the time good Racing between the 3 Classes. Like I said above, sometimes too aggressive and sometimes too cautios from us.
    BUT:
    It seemed that the judgement by GTE's was to slow for the Speed differences between LMP1's and GTE's.
    Very often I witnessed a GTE switching their Line when already a LMP1 was set to make a Pass on that GTE.
    And also what I've witnessed a Lot was that GTE's didn't calculate for a lapping LMP1 under braking wich made them compromise their Turn-In into a Corner
    so they almost turned into us while we were alongside of them.

    The Final General take about yesterday:

    For the Future I wish that Racecontrol will make use of a FCY for bigger Events/Crashes in the Race and even maybe start to callout slow damaged Cars, dangerous Situations from bigger Accidents etc. via Teamspeak Whisper. I know that Racecontrol can be very busy at times but I think that this will help for Everybodys Race in the Future.
     
  2. Jan Kattau

    Jan Kattau Member

    In the end, it´s like always. LMP driver blame the GTE´s and GTE-driver blame the LMP driver.
    I think we all have to practice more in traffic, so we are able to understand the perspective of the other classes.
    Probably after the 3rd race everything will work fine, like last year.
    @Marco you are right, a LMP1 hit should not decide the GTE winner, but that also works in the other direction. There were serveral GTEs and LMP2, who did weird shit, and take out the faster cars.
    Everyone has to learn and respect the other classes.
     
  3. Ricardo Edelmann

    Ricardo Edelmann Administrator Staff Member P1 gaming e.V. P1 Steward

    Admin Post
    @Jan Kattau @Alex Sturm @Alex Braeutigam @Rene von Dobschuetz @Marco Saupe and everyone else.

    First of all, thanks for your feedback.

    We in race control also had a tough day yesterday. You always have to expect "a bit more carnage" in the first race of the season with many new teams joining but yesterday was a hard day. I don't know if you got the notice but race control was not able to look up incidents all the time due to problems with the rfactor 2 replay system. We had major lags and postponed decisions because we were not able to decide clearly. A solution was then found with one steward being able to go into replay without lags which gave us at least a chance on working on incidents at all.

    We have seen a few incidents that were just plain stupid. Sorry for that expression but they just were stupid and the stewards and organization team will have a review of some incidents to get a clear picture of what happened and will take appropriate actions.

    Regarding FCY situations:
    It's really difficult in race control with 2-3 people to immediately spot slow cars or a blocked track. Especially if you are working on incidents at that time. Most of the time when you get a notice from a team and go looking for it, the track already cleared up again. In case of the "blockage" in the pitlane yesterday for example: We got a notice by a team, we started looking for that car but couldn't find it immediately since it was literally invisible for one of us at first. Once we identified the car, we were able to act and remove the car. By the time, we got the notice and were searching for the car, most of the harm was already done.
    If we spot a bigger crash that blocks the whole track or something else, race control will call that out but it's simply not always possible.

    We also can't just throw an FCY on demand by a team. I hope that you understand that but race control always has to verify the situation before acting. Otherwise there is the opportunity to get an advantage by calling something that wasn't really worthy of a FCY to get your stop in or something like that.

    Also, we spotted many cars not respecting yellow flags. We know this is something simracers generally don't do but it's kind of important for races like this. We also handed out warnings for not respecting yellow flags yesterday at one specific incident since all the carnage there could have been avoided if people would just have respected the yellow flags. As a reminder: Yellow flag means that there is danger on/besides the track and you should slow down and be ready to evade or come to a complete stop in front stopped cars or car parts. Also Overtaking is not allowed in that "sector". A yellow sector ends at the station the green flag is shown by the ingame stewards.

    Regarding traffic management:
    We have seen many incidents were there was no respect for the other cars, both by LMPs and GTEs. Sometimes even both at the same time. And i think that was the major point why we had so many incidents yesterday. That is something that everone has to learn. It's always a give and take.

    We encourage everyone to practice on our servers. Getting familiar with the track and the traffic. Check where GTEs are fast, check where the LMPs are slow. Work together. Maybe even take a GTE/LMP for a spin to see where those cars have their limits. Maybe there is a corner where you just simply can't send the GTE around the outside without him being forced of the track. Or for GTEs maybe there is a corner where you can let the LMP dive to the inside and take a line that gives you a good exit so you don't lose time. That are just some things that you might be able to see and that will help with traffic management. The rest ist up to the teams and drivers.
    We as organizers and race control can't do more than give you the opportunity to practice, hand out penalties in races or worst of all, suspend someone from racing. (Which is something we have done already but it's not a fun thing for us).

    So yeah, we're hoping for a better round 2 in regards of respect on track and of course from a technical standpoint.

    Cheers
     
  4. Marc Veit

    Marc Veit Member

    So the most parts are covered unless one

    Fix the pitlane

    I want to say from the start yes the car wasnt visible for the admins, it was just bad luck. But maybe this problem wouldnt even appear with the rule from yesterday or generally a different pitlane. I stopped counting how often people had problems because of stuff like this. It just sucks for people who are practicing for a podium finish or race win but get knocked out because of problems with the pitlane. It just sucks.

    Congratulations to the Podium, it was a tough race for everyone yesterday.
     
  5. Riccardo Corazzari

    Riccardo Corazzari New Member

    My 2cents:
    -yes, traffic has been an overall issue but imho as Alex said it's not that much track-related, but more "mood-related".
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1408983123?t=1h19m14s an example from yesterday: this style of maneuvers can cause drama in every circuit if ends in the wrong way.
    -i think some gte/lmp2 did loose or almost lost car control even when on racing line because drivers used to loose focus checking too much the mirrors: remember, the faster class has control on the move, not you. Be predictable, choose a line and stay there, prepare your corner exit to gain extra time. Be smart!
    -i had to abort my 4th stint because of aero damages, in straights lmp2s were catching me, ok i got hit in the back 2 times and got blue diffuser but the big issues were coming from a car that DNF'd and was out of the garage (and invisible, dont ask me why, never happened, probably garage detail mult?). There are SO MUCH cars, and its extremely NICE to see: to the staff, please, if a car choose to DNF just remove it from the game.
    -in the end we must be honest: its an amazing grid, so mixed, someone just want to enjoy the race, some other are extremely competitive and quick, the server was ultra smooth, we must be more a bit more responsible and overall take more care about the grid.

    About the episode between our lmp2 car and the #46 seawolf: as Rik said, there was nothing, nothing, nothing intentional. And the incoming race will completely demonstrate it. Our P1 #7 will be a threat to be beat by herself.

    maybe not 2cents but even 3/4 euros but its fine :D onto the next one!
     
  6. Markus Broch

    Markus Broch Administrator Staff Member P1 gaming e.V.

    Admin Post
    @all

    So then I will also say something about yesterday's race. That Estoril will not be easy was clear. But the bottom line is that it was a great race. Also the post's up to here I find very good, all pull on the same rope and both the gte and lmp drivers realize that what did not go so well. This is a point that teams need to work on. I personally don't like long rulebooks where everything has to be written down to the smallest point, for me ours is already too long (but also necessary as you can see) We have teams that have been racing here for over 6 years and have made P1 what we are. But please keep in mind that you have also started. Can look for you gladly times a few old streams out :) (we also still have the replays) bottom line is that sometimes tracks have to come in that challenge you drivers (we dare you to do that) otherwise we wouldn't do it, you are great teams and have a strong way behind you.

    Now I have to bring but also times a different tone to the day. In the past, teams have had brand new drivers start to test for another series. (yes we have heard that too) new drivers can drive all year on the training server, they don't have to start in such a high field or start when they have mastered the car. Drivers who can't control the car in the race in the future will be taken out of the race. The bottom line is that we will tighten the reins a bit and start by taking the best list out of the live timing. This brings us to the point that has already been rightly addressed here and where I am fully behind. Use the servers to drive with many cars and get to know the traffic. For this we always provide the things. Then you can see how others drive and how fast they are. Furthermore, we are already working out something that should bring in the future a little more respect and Diszeplin pure.

    On the subject of pit lane. We are working on all tracks for solutions that are within the scope of our possibilities. We can not always just as we want to original tracks (German laws suck) and modded tracks are only used conditionally (here we protect the club) but dear Marc because you are always the loudest, the Monza places we need until 20.03. and remember that you stay within the legal framework. Thank you for your outstanding help to make it better here ;-)

    Guys even if it didn't go so well for everyone, you all had a great start to the season yesterday and we are keeping our fingers crossed for Monza.
     
  7. Jose Ignacio

    Jose Ignacio New Member

    Ok guys, I have received a ban for the next race. May i say some words?

    I filed 2 claims against 2 drivers who caused 2 accidents that caused serious damage to our car in wich we lost almost 8 laps of repairing in the first 30 minutes of the race.

    In my first claim against car #29, an S&G+60seconds was imposed on me now for not respecting a yellow flag.

    On Lap 22 Car #29 while coming out of the last corner touched another car in its class and the two came to a stop in the wrong position.

    In the images it can be seen that the other car driver makes the decision to leave the track and stays off it, waiting for the moment to rejoin to it safely, but the blue car against which I filed the claim resumed its march, drove on the gravel and stopped his car ON the track, pointing towards the cars that came from the opposite direction coming out of the last corner, placing the front half of the car ON the track... (he had a lot of time to decide to put back gear and go back to leave the track, but he decided to stay there) ...
    when I came from the outside of the last corner, coming out of it and I find myself with the track intentionally obstructed by the other driver...
    What is the result of the protest? I am responsible for the accident, according to the stewards, for not respecting a yellow flag caused voluntarily by the other driver.
    So, S&G+60s to me.

    So, the driver who decided to place his car ON the track and hinder the pass of the cars that were coming through the racing line, did not receive any penalty.

    The second claim I filed was also rejected, despite the fact that the incident seriously damaged no less than 6 cars, after the driver I claimed lost control of his car on Lap 11, without any fight with any other driver, and caused a multiple accident ... So losing control of your car and causing a multiple accident, sending several cars into the pits for several laps, is not penalized.

    However, during the race, just on the pitlap to swap drivers I lost control of the car going into the next corner where car #76 caused the massive crash before, and unfortunately i also caused a multiple crash. As a result, my mate who got into the car got +60sS&G a few laps later.

    So losing control of the car and causing a multiple collsion has a heavy penalty during the race (live stewards), but losing control of the car and causing a multiple collision reviewed by the stewards after the race has no penalty.

    Where is the consistency?

    (I lost control of the car, because when adjusting things for the pitstop + driver swap I touched the buttons on the keyboard to jump into view of the other cars, so I had no view of my car for several seconds, until I was able to return to my cockpit view). Im so sorry for that, guys.

    Well, at the end of the day the driver of the bad behavior on the track and banned for a race is me, without having received any post-race protest.

    A bit curious.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
  8. Alex Sturm

    Alex Sturm New Member

    I called out the upcoming cars on my Teammate, so we did our Job as a Car by stopping again in a Way that would've been safe IF People wouldn't ignore the Yellow Flags. And it actually wasn't more than 1/3 from the Car Ontrack since the Tracklimits are the White lines.
    Your greediness to pass that GTE, ignoring/not paying attention to Yellow Flags has caused your own misery in that Situation.
     
  9. Jose Ignacio

    Jose Ignacio New Member

    After hitting the light blue car that is in the background, on the gravel, your driver resumed his run and calmly rolled over it, with the car fully controlled, to then stop it on the track and place it in the position shown in the screenshot.

    I ask you: Why didn't you file a protest against me?

    You did not because you feel embarrassed.

    A third of a car? Really?

    Only the RR tyre of your car is on the grass, dude.

    BTW: What color is the flag waved by the rF2 steward there before the collision?

    upload_2022-3-11_16-15-50.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
  10. Markus Broch

    Markus Broch Administrator Staff Member P1 gaming e.V.

    Admin Post
    A well meaning advice from me, stop arguing, look at your replay and be critical of yourself. Marc did exactly the right thing on the last bend and stopped so that the oncoming traffic could act correctly. The marshal waved green after the accident so stop twisting the facts. Should you now continue to denounce the Reko I advise you to explore here how we react to such things. Now wipe your mouth, sit out the penalty, bite the wheel and show us in the next race that you can do better.
     
  11. Jose Ignacio

    Jose Ignacio New Member

    Hello. I appreciate you writing a few lines.
    I only want to ask you please to explain one thing to me, because I was seriously punished for having caused the accident with car #29, since I would have collided with him during a yellow flag.

    Could you tell me, please, at what exact moment before my collision with the #29 was that yellow flag active in the sim?

    I couldn't find it, and that's why I'm asking you.

    I have the right to that information, please.

    Thanks.
     
  12. Simon Christmann

    Simon Christmann Administrator Staff Member P1 gaming e.V.

    Admin Post
    In your screenshot, you can see to ingame marshall waving the green flag behind the incident. These marshalls only wave the green flag when in the section before is a yellow flag. In the relay you can only check the marshall post as the game does not show the yellow flag as you can see them as a driver.
     
  13. Marco Saupe

    Marco Saupe New Member

    Can you please tell me which lap this incident happened?
     
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