P1 24h Nordschleife 2020 General - Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'General Information' started by Markus Broch, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. Mourad El Bagoury

    Mourad El Bagoury New Member

    Awesome event as usual, thank you to the Orga team for all the hard work

    P.S. will the log file from the server be posted?
  2. Rolf Hvarregaard

    Rolf Hvarregaard New Member

    Thank you for setting up this event and once again letting us participate for the...5th year in a row? Maybe 4th. Either way it was good fun, next time we'll try to get a better result ;)
  3. Georgi Nedev

    Georgi Nedev Member

    Awesome event guys, on behalf of me and GOTeam Racing - it was a pleasure.
    Hats off to @Sebastian Pfeiffer and Co for the flawless performance in an underdog car.
    Big shame for Wave Freem after dominated 23 h of the race.

    Congrats to all podiums finishers and participants.

    Onto next year!
  4. Georgi Nedev

    Georgi Nedev Member

    Where can we see final results?
    Lars Hagemann likes this.
  5. Such a nice feeling to bring the car to the chequered flag in P1, after the bad experience of last year (software related). I had to work all the day and night prior to the race to make my steering wheel back working after a failure, nice to know that this contrubited to the team victory together with the awesome job from everyone.
    We were the only Cup with a totally different strategy, i'm bit surprised by this, glad it payed off. Looking forward to the next year and thanks to everyone involved in this!
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
  6. David Tepper

    David Tepper Active Member

    Team vMADS want to thank P1 Staff as well. Special thanks to the reko for bring a 24h livereko to make it a great race.
    It was an awesome Event and we enjoyed it.
    Driving was really fun and behavior on Track was fine the most time.
    On to that congratulations to winners of the claases.
    And a big sorry for Wave Freem. I think every single Team has huge respect to your drive. Sad it didn´t work out for you.
    Another thank to every Team who finished this one. 46? cars of 50 finished?! AWESOME!!
  7. Tonnie Jansen

    Tonnie Jansen New Member

    Fair racing team thanks the organization for this great event.
    Congratulations to those who made it to the podium.

    normally I would also congratulate the finishers, especially on the schleife, but since organizations let people pull the plug in all cases, this is not so difficult anymore.

    I think that for example if your engine breaks down, you shouldn't come back. This also applies if you run out of gasoline. Even if you drive the car completely loose through your own fault and do not want to drive back to the pits.

    I also think there should be better rules on whether you have to hand in a round if you pull the plug.

    Especially on this track you will never get over a lap behind.

    We did enjoy it, but due to a swap problem, we were thrown back one round and never got over it.
  8. Hannes Hiller

    Hannes Hiller Member

    I beg to differ. Especially if run into early problems it can be really hard to keep up the motivation to keep going through the dead of the night. But you just need to soldier on with firm determination to somehow reach the checked flag.
    So yes: Congratulations to everyone who finished. Especially those stricken by early strife.
    And a BIG thanks to all the organisers and helpers making such an event possible. It was tremendous amount of fun.

    A big sorry goes to vMADS for the early crash. I had a look at the replay and i am not proud about myself. I could have prevented the situation easily but didn't in the heat of the moment. Again, sorry.
  9. Tonnie Jansen

    Tonnie Jansen New Member

    I am in favor of approaching reality as closely as possible, pulling the plug, should be part of that, but not in all cases.
    Juan Cofino likes this.
  10. David Tepper

    David Tepper Active Member

    That´s racing. Both of you had act smarter in that situation. Sadly we also got a penalty for that incident. Sorry also for everyone who was collected by the accident.
    But thanks for your sorry!
  11. Tonnie Jansen

    Tonnie Jansen New Member

    I filled in a incident report without official timestamp, because the replay isn't working, i didt mention the name and lap from the driver, is this okay?
  12. Jason Nik

    Jason Nik New Member

    But you lose a lap in most cases when you pull the plug.
  13. Georgi Nedev

    Georgi Nedev Member

    I agree with Tonnie here, finishing is not that hard. Pro side is that it keeps the fun for everyone to enjoy this awesome event. Downside - we lose realism.
    The plug should only be an option when game/internet/pc failure occurs not when the team/driver made a fatal mistake or got taken out. This will lead to much more margins and safety driving by all just like in real life.
    Now some teams drove like it is a 24h sprint race.
    Lars Hagemann likes this.
  14. Markus Broch

    Markus Broch Administrator Staff Member P1 gaming e.V.

    Admin Post
    You have to see the big picture. In the beginning there were many who drove very badly. Over time, everyone got better and better. Some are racing for victory today because they don't make any more mistakes. Finding the right mix is very difficult. Imagine you have to pay an entry fee of 100 euros because you want to drive through and not just watch after 5 hours. The grid is quickly empty. Or nobody wants to drive.
    Franck Dechavanne likes this.
  15. Mario Tump

    Mario Tump Member

    After some day of rest, here a little recap from YNHR.

    Starting from P3 was a good position, to get out of the traffic in the early rounds. But as expected, we didn't had the pace with the Audi in the early stint, to held back the BMW's or the Corvette. After a couple of hours we were in p5-p7 and could only fight for the podium. We needed something to happen, in the dark or in the early morning and luckily for us, bad for others, Teams crashed or had disconnects. In the morning we were at P2 and fighted for this position against #76 Buttler-Pal Motorsport. Wave Freem eSports were out of reach at that point, leading by 5 minutes.
    Unfortunately Wave Freem eSports killed their Engine after leading 23 hours...We didn't know how to react to this situation...Was it a double downshift? rFactor 2 Bug? Watching the Replay, it was their own fault...constantly over rev the limiter, by a margin of 100-200 rpm for 23 hours. Ofcourse we were happy on one side but on the other side, if you lead the Race for over 23 hours you deserve to win it. After 24 hours we could defend our win from last year! We didn't had a big mistake through the 24h and were happy to get the Audi back in one piece :).

    Thanks to all participants, it was by far the best and strongest Field, we ever had! But especially...

    Thanks to P1 gaming e.V. to make this event possible. Live Reko for 24 hours! Livestream for 24 hours! Server for 24 hours, with no problems!

    See You next Year, maybe for the Hattrick :rolleyes:
  16. Rene von Dobschuetz

    Rene von Dobschuetz Well-Known Member P1 gaming e.V.

    We have with rF2 the most realistic Simulator we can have for "gamers", and me and my team drove endurance at P1-Gaming since the beginning 2014. We drove 6, 8, 12 and 24h, we see daytime-changes, real weather, and real driver swaps. That´s all great stuff and real racing feeling. We had seen up to 50 cars with about 200 drivers from around the world, really amazing.

    For sure, it is top of realism, if cars end up their races after crashes or other circumstances. But to be honest, for me it´s enough without that. We had seen some events where we had lost cars by joining into race for example, or freezing and crashing in in the lap before race start. That´s maxmimum hard and for sure there is no need to do an server restart for such issues. But think about the drivers. Everyone did an big time expenditure in preparation for the race. Did you find it necessarry, that maybe three or four drivers had done this all for nothing, in worst case for not driving one lap in an 24h race? Why should our hobby be so hard? What did someone who is driving winning, if another car can´t participate anoymore? And can you imaging, with how less cars we had end the Nords? I think, such an events lives from as much cars on track as possible. Our team Rennsimulanten / YourNameHereRacing / BSG / Schnitzelland is happy for every one, who finishes the race over the whole distance.
    An big difference to real racing for me is, that you sit more or less alone in Team-Speak, but on the other side in an pit-garage with the team and stuff and catering. Even for us, every event with 10+ people in TS, it´s not that fun not to continue the race.

    I don´t think that someone benefits from it, if crashed cars could not be able to resume. What should be an agrument or an benefit for the organizer or the participants, if that would not be possible?
  17. Mario Tump

    Mario Tump Member

    Pulling the Plug is ok in my opinion, but you have to differentiate between the circuit Nordschleife and other Circuits. If you have a crash on the Nordschleife it is always faster to not pull the plug and try to reach the pitbox, because you gonna lose to much time, loading the track and lose the inlap...
    Pull the plug should only be an option if you have a game freeze or pc hardware issues. If we allow these circumstances, the Live Reko has to rewatch EVERY single reconnect, was it because of a crash, freeze, dc or whatever and maybe give penalties, if pulling the plug was allowed or not...This is getting out of control for the live Reko...To my knowledge there is no option allowing reconnects under different circumstances. Allow rejoining the race or you're out of the race...
    We do this for fun, without any price money involved and i'm okay with that, that pull the plug is an option, so we can get all cars to the finish line some day.

    Other than this conversation here are my thoughts, which make this Event even better.

    1. When we are allowed to register for the Event, the Rules have to be set and done! Changing Rules days before the actual Race is not very good...Teams have to know at day 1, what they get and have to get used to the rules...
    You changed:
    - Driver Time minimum 15% to max 75%. This could actually kill Teams. Some Teams didn't even know it changed!!! And talked about this change during the Race in the Youtube Livestream.
    - Start procedure! You didn't talk to anybody that we don't have a complete inlap and start right on the döttinger höhe. Nice Idea, but again communcate with us....
    I actually tried a full inlap in pit speed limiter, because i needed to know how much fuel i'm going to burn, if it makes sense to safe some fuel in the first stint...

    I know it's frustating to communicate every small change you gonna do, but you have to. Especially for new Teams.

    2. Pitstop times needs to be checked...If you destroy your car, lose a rearwing and can go again after 30sec repair time, this shouldn't be right. Not exactly Iracing timings, where you can get dinner, fast nap, watch tv and come back after 5 hours of repair time, but ~3 minutes should be the target time... Maybe it was because we drove with damage multiplier 90%, instead of 100% .

    Pitstop times Cup car. I didn't drove the Cup car, but how long was the pitstop time ? 2-3 minutes?

    3. No Livetiming during Practice weeks. I don't know why we didn't get any Livetiming, because we had it at every single Event until now...

    4. No Trackmap this Event...again i don't know why? Spotting for Team Members was very hard this Event.

    5. Livetiming Link under the Youtube Livestream. People who weren't involved in this Event, asked a thousand times, is there a Livetiming?

    Please don't get angry on me, that i talk about these points completely open, maybe some points are on your list from other people i don't know...but i would like this Event to be the best Event ever done for you and some of these points are applicable into the new series, which are coming next Year.

    Cheers Mario
  18. Markus Broch

    Markus Broch Administrator Staff Member P1 gaming e.V.

    Admin Post
    Interesting points Mario and yes, always out with it. It is important to say what you don't like or like. But also bear in mind that things cannot be implemented immediately or not at all. We always have construction sites over the year that we are working on, or problems that we have to take care of. It is getting better from year to year. Live timing is our thorn in the side this year and will probably no longer exist in this way. It was never developed further and has become almost unusable. There will probably be something new.
    Georgi Nedev and Adam Helyes like this.
  19. Sebastian Pfeiffer

    Sebastian Pfeiffer Active Member

    So with the P1 racing season having come to an end, once again thanks to P1 for hosting the regular series as well as the 24h events.

    Winning the 24h Nordschleife with the Audi really came unexpected, but carrying the "onion rings" car 24 hours without any noteworthy incident has been really fun for me. Big thanks to my team mates, who did the main job, and also to all the other Rennsimulanten drivers, who kept everyone awake in TeamSpeak during the whole year. :)


    We will be back for the 24 hours races next year for sure!

    Not sure if I can say the same for the LMS. Having participated in a race yesterday with the same classes as planned by P1, my fear that GTEs and GT3s just doesn't work as multiclass in rFactor, due to them being to close together pacewise, has cemented itself. Dispite a 40 kg weight drop for the GTEs... it just isn't fun from a drivers perspective. At the moment it looks difficult for us to string 3 (motivated) drivers together to at least bring one car back next year, trying to do the hattrick in GTE class.

    Lastly the main reason for this post, but I'll do that in German:

    Was gar nicht geht, ist das Verhalten einiger (weniger) ggü. der Rennleitung. Die hocken sich mit 2-3 Mann das ganze Rennen oder zumindest Großteile des Rennens in den TS Channel (das sind quasi 3 Arbeitstage bei einem 24er!) und nehmen selbst nicht mal aktiv am Renngeschehen teil. Dass nicht immer jedes Team mit jeder Entscheidung oder jedem Strafmaß übereinstimmt, ist von vornerein klar. Es gibt auch strittige Situationen, da ist die Rennleitung sowieso der Buhmann, egal wie sie entscheidet, das ist wie im Fußball bei strittigen Situationen.

    Man kann gewiss auch in den TS Channel zu den Stewards gehen und sich die detaillierte Begründung der Entscheidung erläutern lassen, die Zeit nehmen die sich... aber wegen einer Entscheidung persönlich zu werden, sei es im TS oder gar öffentlich im Youtube-Chat oder wo auch immer ist ein no-go.

    P1 bietet ja sogar die Möglichkeit, selbst in der Rennleitung zu unterstützen und sich die Szenen mit anzuschauen und seinen Senf dazu abzugeben. Kann ich jedem nur empfehlen, insbesondere in der ersten Rennstunde, wo mit Abstand am meisten passiert... da kriegt man erstmal ein Gefühl dafür, was da bei 30-50 Autos zusammenkommt. Ich weiß nicht, wie viele das Angebot im Laufe des Jahres mal angenommen haben, aber ich schätze nicht viele.

    Ich war jedenfalls als "Gaststeward" dabei als jemand seinen Unmut in aus meiner Sicht nicht angemessen Art und Weise ausgelassen hat (war wohl später nochmals ähnlich der Fall und während der LMS Saison ja auch schon) und im Prinzip haben die Jungs nur 3 Möglichkeiten mit sowas umzugehen - a) ignorieren, b) die Betroffenen ausschließen, c) Live-Reko oder Reko im Allgemeinen hinschmeißen. Ich hoffe nur es ist nicht c), denn die Live-Reko ist ein wirklich nicht selbstverständliches, aber für Langstreckenrennen allgemein recht wichtiges Merkmal. Wäre ich Dauersteward hätte ich jedenfalls schlechte Laune, meine Zeit zu opfern und dann noch angeschnauzt zu werden...

    Denke der Punkt kommt rüber...

    In diesem Sinne, see you in 2021. ;)
  20. David Tepper

    David Tepper Active Member

    Da muss ich @Sebastian Pfeiffer in jeder Hinsicht recht geben. Der Kollegiale Umgang vieler Teams wird leider durch einiger weniger zu nichte gemacht.
    Was man mitbekommt wenn man mal im Stewardchannel wartet ist grausam. Auch was hier teilweise zur Anzeige gebracht wurde ist mehr als Fragwürdig.
    Auch wir vMADS hatten sicher hier und da unsere Fehltritte, aber denke im Groben ging es gut.
    Ich kann hier auch nur nochmal meinen größten Respekt an @Simon Christmann, der sich die ganze Saison hinsetzt und immer die Livereko besetzt, das Briefing macht und sich um das einrichten der Server kümmert. All das ohne einen Meter gefahren zu sein in der Langstreckensaison. Das sind alleine 100h Stewardzeit.
    Also seid lieber Dankbar, dass so etwas hier auf die Beine gestellt wird.

    Zur nächsten Saison haben wir die gleichen Bedenken wie Seb. Auch viele unserer Fahrer sind gestern bei dem besagten Rennen mitgefahren, genau wie @Simon Christmann. @Markus Broch und @Ricardo Edelmann waren ja auch im Youtubechat unterwegs. Daher gehe ich davon aus, dass ihr euch das nochmal anguckt und eventuelle Anpassungen vornehmt.
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